1 00:00:14,889 --> 00:00:17,308 (BIRDS CHIRPING) 2 00:00:20,478 --> 00:00:22,689 (LEAVES RUSTLING) 3 00:00:24,399 --> 00:00:28,069 SONORA THOMAS: I use this office to write 4 00:00:28,111 --> 00:00:33,908 and, sometimes, I see clients online up here. 5 00:00:33,950 --> 00:00:36,286 Yeah, so these are some childhood photos 6 00:00:36,327 --> 00:00:39,122 of the two of us with our cowboy hats on 7 00:00:39,164 --> 00:00:41,291 in Texas. 8 00:00:41,374 --> 00:00:43,394 MARGARET BROWN: And we might not get through the whole thing. 9 00:00:43,418 --> 00:00:45,104 - SONORA: Right, right, okay. - MARGARET: Yeah. 10 00:00:45,128 --> 00:00:47,047 (CLEARS THROAT) All right. 11 00:00:47,797 --> 00:00:49,549 Um... Hmm. 12 00:00:49,632 --> 00:00:52,469 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 13 00:00:52,510 --> 00:00:53,845 Just take a breath here. 14 00:00:55,513 --> 00:00:56,556 (YOUNG SONORA LAUGHS) 15 00:00:56,639 --> 00:00:58,325 - MARIA THOMAS: Okay, okay. - (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 16 00:00:58,349 --> 00:00:59,559 MARIA: Aw, that's sweet. 17 00:00:59,642 --> 00:01:01,269 SONORA: "My name is Sonora Rose Thomas." 18 00:01:01,311 --> 00:01:02,353 Give me a kiss, Sonora. 19 00:01:02,437 --> 00:01:04,647 SONORA: "On December 6th, 1991, 20 00:01:04,730 --> 00:01:07,358 my only sibling, my older sister, 21 00:01:07,442 --> 00:01:09,319 Eliza Hope Thomas, was killed. 22 00:01:10,528 --> 00:01:13,907 - I was 13 years old." - At the scene of the crime. 23 00:01:13,990 --> 00:01:15,909 SONORA: "At the moment my sister was killed, 24 00:01:15,992 --> 00:01:18,578 I was fast asleep six blocks away. 25 00:01:19,704 --> 00:01:22,332 If my dad had not been away that night, 26 00:01:22,373 --> 00:01:23,958 I would have been with my sister 27 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,961 and I would have been the fifth victim. 28 00:01:27,003 --> 00:01:30,757 As it was, I spent many years wishing I had been there. 29 00:01:32,884 --> 00:01:36,012 Today, I can say that I'm glad to be alive. 30 00:01:36,096 --> 00:01:40,308 I know now that this life still contains beauty... 31 00:01:41,601 --> 00:01:43,353 but I have not always known that. 32 00:01:45,104 --> 00:01:47,273 This book is my life story. 33 00:01:49,859 --> 00:01:51,319 These murders were said 34 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,532 to have shattered the innocence of the small city of Austin. 35 00:01:55,615 --> 00:01:59,410 They continue to devastate, puzzle, and fascinate many. 36 00:02:02,247 --> 00:02:04,707 As a surviving sibling, I have alternated 37 00:02:04,791 --> 00:02:08,086 between disgust for the ongoing fascination 38 00:02:08,169 --> 00:02:10,380 and awe that the public continues 39 00:02:10,463 --> 00:02:12,549 to be horrified by an event 40 00:02:12,590 --> 00:02:14,592 that has shaped every aspect of my life. 41 00:02:18,054 --> 00:02:20,265 In one of the first videotaped interviews 42 00:02:20,348 --> 00:02:21,724 with my mother, 43 00:02:21,766 --> 00:02:23,726 just a few days after the murder, 44 00:02:23,768 --> 00:02:26,980 I can be seen in the background hyperventilating 45 00:02:27,063 --> 00:02:29,858 while my grief-stricken mother talks to the reporter 46 00:02:29,899 --> 00:02:31,901 and shows him my sister's bedroom." 47 00:02:31,985 --> 00:02:34,070 She always put her hair way up, 48 00:02:34,154 --> 00:02:35,822 you know, and then she'd have clips 49 00:02:35,905 --> 00:02:38,408 and then wash her face real good at night 50 00:02:38,491 --> 00:02:41,452 and I can just still see her. 51 00:02:41,536 --> 00:02:43,204 SONORA: "While reporters were not allowed 52 00:02:43,246 --> 00:02:45,081 at the girls' joint funeral, 53 00:02:45,123 --> 00:02:48,418 one film crew opened a door to the church 54 00:02:48,459 --> 00:02:51,754 to grab what little footage they could. 55 00:02:51,796 --> 00:02:54,674 That's why I almost never return phone messages 56 00:02:54,757 --> 00:02:56,091 left by reporters. 57 00:02:57,177 --> 00:02:59,762 And yet, when I was a freshman in college, 58 00:02:59,804 --> 00:03:03,600 a reporter came to my dorm room to interview me. 59 00:03:03,641 --> 00:03:06,019 This interview proved more difficult 60 00:03:06,102 --> 00:03:08,438 than I had ever imagined. 61 00:03:08,521 --> 00:03:11,566 A simple question like, 'What was your sister like?' 62 00:03:11,608 --> 00:03:13,109 left me blank. 63 00:03:14,485 --> 00:03:18,948 'She loved animals, right?' The interviewer prodded. 64 00:03:18,990 --> 00:03:21,326 All of a sudden, I realized this woman 65 00:03:21,409 --> 00:03:23,244 knew more about her than I did. 66 00:03:25,788 --> 00:03:28,458 Memories live because we talk about them, 67 00:03:28,499 --> 00:03:30,919 but my family didn't talk about Eliza, 68 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,087 so my memories became dormant. 69 00:03:35,298 --> 00:03:38,968 I wrote five pages in my journal the day after that interview. 70 00:03:40,136 --> 00:03:43,139 The interviewer had begun to wake up those memories, 71 00:03:43,223 --> 00:03:45,892 and I didn't want to forget them again. 72 00:03:45,975 --> 00:03:49,270 Still, I had to manage the shame of forgetting." 73 00:03:49,312 --> 00:03:50,605 ♪ (MUSIC STOPS) ♪ 74 00:03:50,647 --> 00:03:52,315 MARGARET: What is the shame of forgetting? 75 00:03:54,025 --> 00:03:56,653 Just that I feel bad. Yeah. 76 00:04:00,156 --> 00:04:01,449 That somehow it's my job 77 00:04:01,491 --> 00:04:03,326 to keep her alive through my memory. 78 00:04:07,413 --> 00:04:09,832 ♪ ("DEVIL TOWN" BY ALLEGRA KRIEGER PLAYING) ♪ 79 00:04:09,916 --> 00:04:15,463 ♪ I was livin' in a devil town ♪ 80 00:04:16,380 --> 00:04:21,803 ♪ Didn't know it was a devil town ♪ 81 00:04:23,513 --> 00:04:28,017 ♪ Oh, Lord it really brings me down ♪ 82 00:04:28,059 --> 00:04:31,187 ♪ About the devil town ♪ 83 00:04:32,272 --> 00:04:38,695 ♪ I was livin' in a devil town ♪ 84 00:04:38,778 --> 00:04:45,784 ♪ Didn't know it was a devil town ♪ 85 00:04:45,868 --> 00:04:50,581 ♪ Oh lord It really brings me down ♪ 86 00:04:50,665 --> 00:04:53,543 ♪ About the devil town ♪ 87 00:04:53,626 --> 00:04:55,378 ♪ (SONG CONCLUDES) ♪ 88 00:04:56,796 --> 00:04:58,589 This is Robert. Hey, Shannon, how are you? 89 00:04:58,673 --> 00:05:01,342 - SHANNON: I'm good, how are you? - I'm doing pretty good. 90 00:05:05,138 --> 00:05:07,098 ♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 91 00:05:07,890 --> 00:05:09,892 (SPRAY CAN HISSING) 92 00:05:13,271 --> 00:05:16,024 (WHIRRING) 93 00:05:54,437 --> 00:05:57,106 What you plan to do with your time, 94 00:05:57,148 --> 00:06:01,611 how you plan to spend, you know, the rest of your life. 95 00:06:01,652 --> 00:06:06,115 So, I want it to be positive in that sense. 96 00:06:06,157 --> 00:06:10,119 Um, what we will not, under any circumstance, do 97 00:06:10,203 --> 00:06:13,122 is discuss facts in the case. 98 00:06:13,206 --> 00:06:15,291 So, that means you do have to take some care 99 00:06:15,333 --> 00:06:17,960 when it comes to talking about things like, 100 00:06:18,002 --> 00:06:20,505 uh, "Isn't it true that you confessed?" Yes. 101 00:06:22,048 --> 00:06:25,301 So, I want you to talk about why and how it came to be 102 00:06:25,343 --> 00:06:27,136 that you confessed. 103 00:06:27,178 --> 00:06:29,472 That you never realized for one moment 104 00:06:29,555 --> 00:06:32,016 that it could lead to you going to death row. 105 00:06:33,308 --> 00:06:35,061 Uh, do you want me to wear the black jacket 106 00:06:35,144 --> 00:06:37,313 and black slacks, or the black jacket, 107 00:06:37,355 --> 00:06:39,148 or the blue jacket and black slacks? 108 00:06:39,232 --> 00:06:41,818 I wouldn't even bother to wear a jacket. 109 00:06:41,901 --> 00:06:45,822 I think if you wear the shirt, slacks, dark socks, shoes, 110 00:06:45,905 --> 00:06:48,116 - you're going to be just fine. - All right. 111 00:06:54,747 --> 00:06:58,501 ♪ (BROODING MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 112 00:07:21,774 --> 00:07:23,752 JOHN JONES: Told you it was a hideous color, didn't I? 113 00:07:23,776 --> 00:07:26,028 (CHUCKLES) I only worn it once. 114 00:07:27,697 --> 00:07:31,868 Yeah, this is four girls here that are now dead. 115 00:07:31,909 --> 00:07:33,762 For what reason? I mean, surely they couldn't have 116 00:07:33,786 --> 00:07:35,830 that much money in there. 117 00:07:35,872 --> 00:07:38,499 Um, the price of life seems to be getting cheaper 118 00:07:38,541 --> 00:07:39,834 and cheaper these days. 119 00:07:41,127 --> 00:07:44,630 I'd gone to Sheplers and bought that shirt. 120 00:07:46,174 --> 00:07:47,717 That's the first time I wore it. 121 00:07:47,758 --> 00:07:49,760 And I made a promise talking to the families, 122 00:07:49,844 --> 00:07:51,846 that the next time they saw me wearing that shirt, 123 00:07:51,888 --> 00:07:54,432 it's because the case was solved. 124 00:07:57,602 --> 00:08:00,062 And so I haven't worn it since. 125 00:08:00,146 --> 00:08:03,024 It's been hanging in the closet for 30 years. 126 00:08:08,946 --> 00:08:10,031 This is the box. 127 00:08:21,209 --> 00:08:24,545 This was the one that was on all of the billboards around town. 128 00:08:26,047 --> 00:08:28,841 (PAGES RUSTLING) 129 00:08:33,304 --> 00:08:36,097 Under confessions, oral, you know, 130 00:08:36,182 --> 00:08:38,267 I got a chart here, and actually it's... 131 00:08:39,727 --> 00:08:43,272 you have to pull it apart, because this was two, 132 00:08:43,356 --> 00:08:47,109 11x14s and you know, we listed all the confessions, 133 00:08:47,151 --> 00:08:50,738 whether they were oral or written, or bragging. 134 00:08:50,780 --> 00:08:56,035 There's six written ones and probably 40 or so verbal. 135 00:08:56,118 --> 00:08:59,372 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 136 00:09:01,666 --> 00:09:03,668 JONES: I wasn't the best interrogator. 137 00:09:03,751 --> 00:09:06,254 I'm more the support guy, 138 00:09:06,295 --> 00:09:09,966 you know, with evidence and all of that. 139 00:09:10,049 --> 00:09:12,093 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 140 00:09:12,134 --> 00:09:14,053 JONES: And, you know, Hector Polanco 141 00:09:14,136 --> 00:09:15,596 knew interrogation. 142 00:09:15,638 --> 00:09:18,140 DICK ELLIS: A homicide investigator for five years, 143 00:09:18,182 --> 00:09:21,227 Polanco has never had a murder case go unsolved. 144 00:09:23,813 --> 00:09:25,147 We'll get to the bottom of this, 145 00:09:25,231 --> 00:09:27,692 and we'll come with a positive conclusion. 146 00:09:27,775 --> 00:09:30,820 And, uh... That I can promise you. 147 00:09:31,988 --> 00:09:33,781 You know, he was the Cobra. 148 00:09:35,366 --> 00:09:38,452 You know, he had the reputation in homicide for 149 00:09:39,495 --> 00:09:41,497 solving the tough cases. 150 00:09:41,581 --> 00:09:45,001 (JONES MUMBLING) 151 00:09:45,084 --> 00:09:47,336 Ah, interview with Shawn Smith. 152 00:09:48,337 --> 00:09:50,423 Buddha Shawn Smith. 153 00:09:50,506 --> 00:09:52,842 He was interviewed by Sergeant Polanco, 154 00:09:52,883 --> 00:09:55,094 who managed to get a confession out of him. 155 00:09:56,387 --> 00:09:58,139 We felt so good about it. 156 00:09:58,180 --> 00:10:00,725 Matter of fact, I brought the shirt down to the station, 157 00:10:00,808 --> 00:10:03,269 and we called in the homicide secretary. 158 00:10:03,352 --> 00:10:06,188 She was typing up the grand jury indictment 159 00:10:06,272 --> 00:10:08,941 for him and the people he said was with him. 160 00:10:09,567 --> 00:10:11,068 We felt good about it. 161 00:10:11,777 --> 00:10:14,905 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪ 162 00:10:14,989 --> 00:10:17,825 We had called the SWAT unit in because, you know, 163 00:10:17,867 --> 00:10:19,910 we were going to go out and arrest all these folks. 164 00:10:20,453 --> 00:10:22,788 And then it fell apart. 165 00:10:23,748 --> 00:10:25,541 MIKE HUCKABAY: The sad thing about it 166 00:10:25,625 --> 00:10:27,668 is Hector really is a good investigator. 167 00:10:27,710 --> 00:10:29,503 He is a very good investigator. 168 00:10:30,379 --> 00:10:33,674 But he don't use it right. 169 00:10:34,592 --> 00:10:37,678 I have seen him get confessions 170 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:42,558 from somebody that did not have a thing to do with it, 171 00:10:42,642 --> 00:10:46,395 but Hector can scare the shit out of you and make you confess. 172 00:10:46,437 --> 00:10:48,522 He can. He's okay with it. 173 00:10:48,564 --> 00:10:50,733 As long as he gets a confession, he's okay. 174 00:10:54,070 --> 00:10:55,780 You asked me, "Why would somebody confess 175 00:10:55,863 --> 00:10:57,239 if they didn't do crap?" 176 00:10:59,742 --> 00:11:03,079 You can get in somebody's head real easy if you know how. 177 00:11:04,413 --> 00:11:06,415 And most investigators know, 178 00:11:06,457 --> 00:11:08,334 "If I keep you here long enough... 179 00:11:11,212 --> 00:11:12,797 I have you signing that confession 180 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:14,590 before you leave." 181 00:11:14,632 --> 00:11:16,759 You think, "There ain't no way that's going to happen. 182 00:11:16,801 --> 00:11:18,094 There's no way you're gonna..." 183 00:11:18,135 --> 00:11:21,347 A bull of crap. (LAUGHS) You want me to prove it? 184 00:11:21,430 --> 00:11:22,556 MARGARET: 185 00:11:22,598 --> 00:11:24,118 Y'all have to come get her out of jail. 186 00:11:29,772 --> 00:11:31,649 JONES: Cops can lie to you, 187 00:11:31,732 --> 00:11:34,276 and Hector was very good at that. 188 00:11:34,318 --> 00:11:37,196 Girl number two started towards the back door, 189 00:11:37,279 --> 00:11:40,783 I guess, because she was only tied in the front. 190 00:11:40,825 --> 00:11:42,827 When I talked to Buddha Shawn Smith, 191 00:11:42,910 --> 00:11:45,454 Shawn goes, "Well, Hector had me convinced 192 00:11:45,496 --> 00:11:47,665 that I actually did it." 193 00:11:47,748 --> 00:11:51,377 He convinced Shawn that we had it on video. 194 00:11:51,460 --> 00:11:53,129 We had him on video 195 00:11:53,212 --> 00:11:56,090 from the Chevron station across the street. 196 00:11:57,258 --> 00:11:58,858 There was some element of truth in there. 197 00:11:58,884 --> 00:12:00,678 There was a station across the street, 198 00:12:00,761 --> 00:12:02,221 and it did have a camera, 199 00:12:02,304 --> 00:12:04,765 but we didn't have anybody in it. 200 00:12:06,267 --> 00:12:09,770 That was one of the confessions pretty early on. 201 00:12:09,812 --> 00:12:12,648 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 202 00:12:12,690 --> 00:12:15,609 JONES: Another confession was Alex Briones. 203 00:12:18,237 --> 00:12:21,490 He said that he burned them, and I looked at his confession, 204 00:12:21,532 --> 00:12:24,243 and he said that he got 1200 dollars, 205 00:12:24,326 --> 00:12:25,703 1300 dollars, something like that. 206 00:12:25,786 --> 00:12:28,122 And I said, "Well, that's wrong." 207 00:12:28,164 --> 00:12:31,917 And then I got asked by Hector, "Well, how much was taken?" 208 00:12:33,878 --> 00:12:35,713 I wouldn't tell him, neither would Huck. 209 00:12:37,214 --> 00:12:39,675 That was kind of one of those hold back things. 210 00:12:39,759 --> 00:12:43,804 Information that only the bad guy and us have. 211 00:12:44,847 --> 00:12:47,391 A truth test, as it were. 212 00:12:51,353 --> 00:12:52,855 Hector was hard to go up against, 213 00:12:52,897 --> 00:12:55,691 but Huck and I kind of held onto each other and go, 214 00:12:55,775 --> 00:12:58,819 "We can't. We just can't." 215 00:12:58,861 --> 00:13:01,864 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 216 00:13:01,906 --> 00:13:06,911 Hector Polanco messed his case up big time. 217 00:13:06,994 --> 00:13:09,038 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 218 00:13:09,121 --> 00:13:12,833 HUCKABAY: I don't know that can ever be undone what he did. 219 00:13:12,875 --> 00:13:16,253 I don't know how much time we wasted 220 00:13:17,421 --> 00:13:19,048 over nothing. 221 00:13:22,968 --> 00:13:24,362 HECTOR POLANCO: I want y'all to hear this. 222 00:13:24,386 --> 00:13:26,847 This is what's gonna motivate everybody. 223 00:13:30,142 --> 00:13:31,453 ♪ ("WE WILL NOT FORGET" PLAYING) ♪ 224 00:13:31,477 --> 00:13:37,233 ♪ We will not forget ♪ 225 00:13:37,274 --> 00:13:41,862 ♪ Dreams you'll never dare... ♪ 226 00:13:41,904 --> 00:13:44,240 Well, there has been a shake-up in the task force. 227 00:13:44,323 --> 00:13:47,701 Senior Sergeant Hector Polanco, the task force supervisor, 228 00:13:47,743 --> 00:13:49,578 has been reassigned amid allegations 229 00:13:49,662 --> 00:13:52,540 that he coerced a suspect into a confession. 230 00:13:52,581 --> 00:13:54,208 It won't affect the investigation. 231 00:13:54,250 --> 00:13:56,252 He's been there to assist the investigators. 232 00:13:56,293 --> 00:13:58,796 Nothing will change as far as the investigation. 233 00:13:58,879 --> 00:14:01,173 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 234 00:14:03,217 --> 00:14:04,569 ERIN MORIARTY: Do you have a theory? 235 00:14:04,593 --> 00:14:07,930 Do all of you guys have a, like, a pet theory of... 236 00:14:07,972 --> 00:14:09,223 JONES: Of this case? 237 00:14:09,265 --> 00:14:11,559 I don't because that's a why question, 238 00:14:12,726 --> 00:14:15,271 and you can get lost in a why question. 239 00:14:15,312 --> 00:14:16,981 We'll get these people caught, 240 00:14:18,148 --> 00:14:20,526 uh, and you know, I'm going to ask them 241 00:14:20,609 --> 00:14:21,902 because I'm deep down, 242 00:14:21,944 --> 00:14:24,572 I guess inside, I'm curious too. "Why?" 243 00:14:24,613 --> 00:14:25,781 The reason I'm asking why 244 00:14:25,823 --> 00:14:27,825 is because I need to tell the families. 245 00:14:27,908 --> 00:14:29,628 Actually, what I'm probably going to say is, 246 00:14:29,660 --> 00:14:32,079 I'm going to say this. "Look, fella, fellas, 247 00:14:32,121 --> 00:14:33,414 girls, whoever, you... 248 00:14:33,455 --> 00:14:35,124 Now, see, in a few minutes here, 249 00:14:35,207 --> 00:14:38,460 I got to go out and wake these families up again 250 00:14:38,502 --> 00:14:40,004 and try and give them some good news 251 00:14:40,087 --> 00:14:41,797 in the middle of the night for a change. 252 00:14:41,881 --> 00:14:44,925 Now, what do you want me to tell them?" 253 00:14:49,722 --> 00:14:51,765 ♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪ 254 00:14:51,807 --> 00:14:54,810 ERIN: What a junk... Look at my junkie office. 255 00:14:54,894 --> 00:14:57,980 I don't have much in here. I do have... You saw John, right? 256 00:14:58,063 --> 00:15:00,399 I have no idea why John took this picture, 257 00:15:00,482 --> 00:15:01,984 but I've had it here forever. 258 00:15:02,067 --> 00:15:04,111 There's your John Jones next to a bull. 259 00:15:04,153 --> 00:15:07,156 That's a very odd picture. 260 00:15:07,239 --> 00:15:11,327 Over here, Victoria Gotti, John Gotti's daughter. 261 00:15:11,368 --> 00:15:12,870 This is Matt Baker, 262 00:15:12,953 --> 00:15:16,665 a preacher who was convicted of killing his wife. 263 00:15:16,707 --> 00:15:19,376 But this gives you 30 years of... 264 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:22,296 covering cases. 265 00:15:23,672 --> 00:15:25,400 You know, after you've worked on these stories, 266 00:15:25,424 --> 00:15:27,301 like with John here, after you've worked 267 00:15:27,343 --> 00:15:30,012 on these stories for so many years, 268 00:15:30,054 --> 00:15:33,974 you know the case, you know their lives. 269 00:15:34,433 --> 00:15:36,185 Um... 270 00:15:36,226 --> 00:15:38,854 You know, this is not a job to me. 271 00:15:38,938 --> 00:15:42,191 This is my life. And so, um, 272 00:15:42,232 --> 00:15:44,860 calling these individuals up, John Jones, 273 00:15:44,902 --> 00:15:47,196 I mean, I call just to see how he is. 274 00:15:47,279 --> 00:15:49,365 And I keep doing updates on his case. 275 00:15:49,448 --> 00:15:51,075 ♪ (GENTLE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 276 00:15:51,867 --> 00:15:54,703 That was the first time I was there. 277 00:15:55,329 --> 00:15:58,374 JONES: Hello? Hi. 278 00:15:58,415 --> 00:15:59,726 - CHRISTINA: Hi, Daddy. - JONES: Hey. 279 00:15:59,750 --> 00:16:02,711 ERIN: You know, three decades. You know, think about that. 280 00:16:02,753 --> 00:16:05,881 So, yeah, he's a big part of my life. 281 00:16:05,923 --> 00:16:07,359 - (INDISTINCT CHATTER) - Hi, yeah, this is... 282 00:16:07,383 --> 00:16:09,152 Hi, I'm Erin. I haven't gotten a chance to come in. 283 00:16:09,176 --> 00:16:10,636 - You good? - I am. 284 00:16:10,719 --> 00:16:12,096 - I'm with CBS News. - Oh, you are? 285 00:16:12,179 --> 00:16:13,859 - Nice meeting you. - Well, nice meeting you. 286 00:16:13,889 --> 00:16:15,933 Now, you be careful what you put out 287 00:16:16,016 --> 00:16:17,226 and what you say. 288 00:16:17,309 --> 00:16:19,186 - Absolutely. - Because I'm listening to y'all. 289 00:16:19,228 --> 00:16:21,689 - Sometimes you tell too much. - We do? 290 00:16:21,730 --> 00:16:23,524 (LAUGHS) 291 00:16:23,565 --> 00:16:25,025 MRS. FREEMAN: You all have a seat. 292 00:16:25,067 --> 00:16:26,402 JONES: This is Andrea. 293 00:16:26,485 --> 00:16:27,861 (OVERLAPPING CHATTER) 294 00:16:27,903 --> 00:16:29,029 JONES: That's Christina. 295 00:16:29,071 --> 00:16:30,656 Christina, turn around and say hi. 296 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:32,658 - Hi. - (CHUCKLES) 297 00:16:32,741 --> 00:16:34,052 JONES: She did exactly what I said. 298 00:16:34,076 --> 00:16:36,078 That's my wife, Yolanda, over there. 299 00:16:36,912 --> 00:16:37,913 Ah. 300 00:16:37,997 --> 00:16:39,557 And mother of these two little ones here. 301 00:16:39,581 --> 00:16:41,208 (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) 302 00:16:41,250 --> 00:16:43,252 - ERIN: So Mrs. Freeman. - Mm-hmm. 303 00:16:43,293 --> 00:16:45,087 Do you think this city was hit hard 304 00:16:45,170 --> 00:16:46,588 by this particular murder? 305 00:16:46,630 --> 00:16:49,967 This city has been hit hard by a lot of murders. 306 00:16:50,050 --> 00:16:53,220 And there's been many, many more beside those. 307 00:16:54,847 --> 00:16:56,265 And I don't... I don't think, 308 00:16:56,348 --> 00:16:59,268 I think this city's been hit hard by a lot of them. 309 00:16:59,351 --> 00:17:02,187 I think every time one happens, it's hard 310 00:17:03,147 --> 00:17:05,107 'cause it affects somebody. 311 00:17:05,148 --> 00:17:07,734 ERIN: Do you think more emphasis was put on this case 312 00:17:07,776 --> 00:17:10,863 because the fact that these were young, 313 00:17:10,945 --> 00:17:13,741 White, middle-class victims more than, we'll say, 314 00:17:13,781 --> 00:17:15,534 another kind of murder? 315 00:17:16,076 --> 00:17:18,662 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 316 00:17:18,954 --> 00:17:20,079 Yeah. 317 00:17:20,122 --> 00:17:23,333 There's a lot of experience back in those gray strands. 318 00:17:23,416 --> 00:17:27,921 Everybody's on pins and needles, at least in our administration, 319 00:17:27,963 --> 00:17:30,674 because they don't wanna be painted as, uh, 320 00:17:31,383 --> 00:17:33,302 as doing all of this, 321 00:17:33,385 --> 00:17:36,722 you know, strictly because it's, it's a Caucasian thing. 322 00:17:38,348 --> 00:17:41,185 Actually, I think the murder of, uh... 323 00:17:41,268 --> 00:17:44,480 of any young people kind of transcends racial lines. 324 00:17:44,563 --> 00:17:46,440 - Daddy. - I mean... Yeah, baby? 325 00:17:46,482 --> 00:17:47,649 - Daddy. See? - Yeah. 326 00:17:47,691 --> 00:17:49,651 - Yeah, I see that. - I see that... 327 00:17:49,693 --> 00:17:51,028 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 328 00:17:51,111 --> 00:17:54,823 ♪ (MELANCHOLY MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 329 00:17:56,450 --> 00:17:58,136 REPORTER: The city of Austin is still waiting 330 00:17:58,160 --> 00:17:59,286 to see justice done. 331 00:17:59,328 --> 00:18:02,164 Now, Austin police have gotten about 2000 leads, 332 00:18:02,206 --> 00:18:04,291 but so far nothing has panned out. 333 00:18:04,333 --> 00:18:06,460 So today, the Austin business community 334 00:18:06,502 --> 00:18:07,753 upped the stakes. 335 00:18:07,836 --> 00:18:10,047 The reward for information was quadrupled 336 00:18:10,130 --> 00:18:12,174 to 100,000 dollars. 337 00:18:12,257 --> 00:18:15,010 We are here with a plea. 338 00:18:15,052 --> 00:18:17,763 Give us the information that will lead to the arrest 339 00:18:17,846 --> 00:18:20,766 and conviction of the person that murdered these girls 340 00:18:20,849 --> 00:18:23,143 and we will give you 100,000 dollars 341 00:18:23,185 --> 00:18:24,812 for that information. 342 00:18:24,853 --> 00:18:26,498 DETECTIVE 1: Yeah, we can do it on the phone 343 00:18:26,522 --> 00:18:28,190 or we can bring you in. You're 17, right? 344 00:18:28,232 --> 00:18:30,043 DETECTIVE 2: We can find her, which might be easier. 345 00:18:30,067 --> 00:18:31,985 We were asking for any tip, right? 346 00:18:32,027 --> 00:18:33,862 And we got any tip. 347 00:18:33,904 --> 00:18:37,199 Have you ever seen the file on that yogurt shop mur... 348 00:18:37,282 --> 00:18:41,036 Oh, my Lord. Huge. Huge! 349 00:18:41,078 --> 00:18:43,872 I mean, I have a hard time even explaining to you 350 00:18:43,914 --> 00:18:48,085 what happened, because people started calling in. 351 00:18:48,168 --> 00:18:49,687 DETECTIVE 1: We can bring you in, you're 17. 352 00:18:49,711 --> 00:18:50,796 What do you got? 353 00:18:50,879 --> 00:18:52,479 HUCKABAY: You got people call in and say, 354 00:18:53,382 --> 00:18:56,260 "Hey, I know this guy, his name is..." 355 00:18:56,343 --> 00:18:59,555 Where specifically were this... Was this person sneaking around? 356 00:18:59,638 --> 00:19:02,558 And they'll give you some kind of evidence, 357 00:19:02,641 --> 00:19:03,684 "This is the guy." 358 00:19:03,725 --> 00:19:05,227 Thank you for calling. 359 00:19:05,310 --> 00:19:07,938 Uh, what do you do? You got to find the guy. 360 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,232 You got to investigate. 361 00:19:10,315 --> 00:19:13,026 Yeah, he's some psychotic dude who likes to kill women. 362 00:19:13,068 --> 00:19:17,197 A lot of times it was, "I heard" or "I think I saw..." 363 00:19:17,239 --> 00:19:19,741 But it was our job to glean anything useful 364 00:19:19,825 --> 00:19:20,993 from coming in. 365 00:19:22,035 --> 00:19:23,745 DETECTIVE 1: Aryan Brotherhood. 366 00:19:23,829 --> 00:19:26,874 Tattoos deluxe, and he was on heroin. 367 00:19:26,915 --> 00:19:29,376 HUCKABAY: We had so many notes. 368 00:19:29,418 --> 00:19:33,422 And at this time in homicide, there were six officers. 369 00:19:33,463 --> 00:19:35,424 That's not a lot. 370 00:19:35,507 --> 00:19:39,678 After you got all these files, we separated them. 371 00:19:39,761 --> 00:19:43,765 "That's good, eh, sort of good, nah." 372 00:19:43,807 --> 00:19:46,935 Went three ways. Good, sort of good, and bad. 373 00:19:46,977 --> 00:19:49,771 We got three more of those folks coming in this afternoon. 374 00:19:49,813 --> 00:19:51,583 - They're all backstreet... - HUCKABAY: Work this one, 375 00:19:51,607 --> 00:19:55,611 work that one. I mean, constant, constant, constant, constant. 376 00:19:55,652 --> 00:19:58,697 Piles. Piles. It just kept getting bigger. 377 00:19:58,780 --> 00:20:01,450 -Oh, 342 people 378 00:20:01,533 --> 00:20:03,327 that have been listed as suspects. 379 00:20:03,410 --> 00:20:06,121 We're looking at pages and pages of suspects here. 380 00:20:06,205 --> 00:20:07,247 It's off the scale. 381 00:20:08,707 --> 00:20:10,459 Way off the scale. 382 00:20:10,542 --> 00:20:12,961 CITIZEN 1: This is what I think happened that night. 383 00:20:13,003 --> 00:20:14,763 I think they went in there to get some money. 384 00:20:14,796 --> 00:20:17,966 They tried setting the place on fire to cover their tracks 385 00:20:18,050 --> 00:20:19,801 and haul ass. 386 00:20:19,843 --> 00:20:22,137 This is what I think. This is my theory. 387 00:20:22,221 --> 00:20:24,890 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 388 00:20:26,642 --> 00:20:28,936 CITIZEN 2: Some sort of satanic ritual, 389 00:20:28,977 --> 00:20:30,187 cult-like activity. 390 00:20:30,270 --> 00:20:32,207 CITIZEN 3: The Creek people, the persons in black. 391 00:20:32,231 --> 00:20:33,458 CITIZEN 4: White supremacist groups. 392 00:20:33,482 --> 00:20:35,150 CITIZEN 5: Uh, money laundering schemes. 393 00:20:35,234 --> 00:20:38,111 - The vampires, uh, the occult... - (JONES SIGHS) 394 00:20:38,153 --> 00:20:40,489 uh, graveyard riots. 395 00:20:40,572 --> 00:20:43,867 They go out and dance and take pictures on tombstones. 396 00:20:45,410 --> 00:20:48,789 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪ 397 00:20:54,127 --> 00:20:57,839 REESE PRICE: The rumors ran rapid around Austin. 398 00:20:57,881 --> 00:21:00,634 There was all these theories about satanic stuff 399 00:21:00,676 --> 00:21:01,802 and this and that. 400 00:21:01,843 --> 00:21:04,429 And they had a lot to wade through. 401 00:21:05,472 --> 00:21:07,808 JONES: What you got here is party favors. 402 00:21:07,849 --> 00:21:09,685 But if they haven't killed anybody, 403 00:21:09,768 --> 00:21:11,812 I'm sure they're going to in the next five years. 404 00:21:11,853 --> 00:21:13,355 (GRUNTS) 405 00:21:13,397 --> 00:21:17,109 ♪ ("CANNIBAL" BY SCRATCH ACID PLAYING) ♪ 406 00:21:21,154 --> 00:21:25,284 They start going after goth kids and metalheads... 407 00:21:27,577 --> 00:21:29,788 and PIBs, 408 00:21:29,871 --> 00:21:33,709 People in Black, just dance club kids, teenagers. 409 00:21:33,792 --> 00:21:39,715 ♪ My heart And I'll stop eating my heart! ♪ 410 00:21:39,798 --> 00:21:41,383 They asked me if I was into witchcraft. 411 00:21:41,466 --> 00:21:43,444 They asked me if I knew anything about the murderers. 412 00:21:43,468 --> 00:21:44,779 So many of my friends were targeted, 413 00:21:44,803 --> 00:21:47,055 had SWAT teams bust into their houses, 414 00:21:47,139 --> 00:21:49,182 -like, "Oh, they had a... " -It got gnarly fast. 415 00:21:49,224 --> 00:21:51,393 Like, every... every day. 416 00:21:54,021 --> 00:21:55,397 OFFICER 1: Open the door! Police! 417 00:21:56,356 --> 00:21:57,607 DETECTIVE 1: This is police! 418 00:21:58,317 --> 00:22:00,235 Police officer! Police officer! 419 00:22:00,319 --> 00:22:02,213 Get down, get down, get down! Get down on the ground! 420 00:22:02,237 --> 00:22:04,865 Get on the ground! Police officer! 421 00:22:04,906 --> 00:22:06,867 DETECTIVE 2: Bingo. Them bones. 422 00:22:13,165 --> 00:22:14,725 CLAIR LAVAYE: They took a bunch of books 423 00:22:15,125 --> 00:22:16,376 and they took this. 424 00:22:19,796 --> 00:22:24,426 And this is the skull that was FedExed to me. 425 00:22:24,509 --> 00:22:27,137 - It's just plastic... - (TAPS ECHOING) 426 00:22:28,388 --> 00:22:31,933 and suede and hair that's been glued on it. 427 00:22:31,975 --> 00:22:33,602 It's been rolled in the dirt. 428 00:22:34,269 --> 00:22:35,896 I knew they were coming, 429 00:22:35,937 --> 00:22:38,148 and that's something the police didn't understand. 430 00:22:39,441 --> 00:22:40,942 My name was on a shortlist, 431 00:22:40,984 --> 00:22:44,404 and the FBI were in Europa Bookstore. 432 00:22:44,446 --> 00:22:48,617 It had books on sexual deviancy. It had books on the occult. 433 00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:50,952 If you walked into that section, 434 00:22:50,994 --> 00:22:54,790 someone from the FBI would flash a badge and say, 435 00:22:54,831 --> 00:22:58,794 "Do you know..." da, da, da. Seven names or so. 436 00:22:58,877 --> 00:23:00,462 And my name was one of them. 437 00:23:00,545 --> 00:23:02,798 So, I got a skull. 438 00:23:02,839 --> 00:23:05,258 I put it in a box with some other bones. 439 00:23:05,300 --> 00:23:07,260 I was like, "Find it." 440 00:23:07,302 --> 00:23:10,055 And maybe they'd realize that this is BS. 441 00:23:10,138 --> 00:23:11,491 I didn't know they were going to bring 442 00:23:11,515 --> 00:23:13,100 48 Hours with them though. 443 00:23:13,141 --> 00:23:17,229 ♪ ("48 HOURS" THEME MUSIC PLAYING ) ♪ 444 00:23:17,312 --> 00:23:20,649 ERIN: She supposedly runs a ring of devil worshipers. 445 00:23:20,732 --> 00:23:23,151 Dozens of them have been telling Austin police 446 00:23:23,193 --> 00:23:25,987 that Clair either committed the yogurt shop murders 447 00:23:26,029 --> 00:23:27,322 or knows who did. 448 00:23:27,364 --> 00:23:29,908 This was a terrible crime, 449 00:23:29,991 --> 00:23:33,078 and people are calling in to police and giving your name. 450 00:23:33,537 --> 00:23:34,830 Why? 451 00:23:34,913 --> 00:23:37,833 ♪ (BROODING MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 452 00:23:37,916 --> 00:23:41,336 CLAIR: Having media enter my home against my will, 453 00:23:41,420 --> 00:23:43,296 pull things out of my closet, 454 00:23:43,338 --> 00:23:45,006 parade around everything in my house... 455 00:23:45,048 --> 00:23:46,234 REPORTER: And inside this home, 456 00:23:46,258 --> 00:23:49,010 a large amount of pornography and SandM materials. 457 00:23:49,052 --> 00:23:50,363 CHESTER JOHNSON: An awful lot of, uh, 458 00:23:50,387 --> 00:23:54,975 I guess you would describe as macabre type of, uh, scenes. 459 00:23:55,016 --> 00:23:57,310 To be shown arrested naked 460 00:23:57,352 --> 00:24:00,939 and then have them cut to commercial, come back. 461 00:24:01,523 --> 00:24:04,568 "Oh, it was nothing. 462 00:24:05,569 --> 00:24:06,778 Just a weirdo." 463 00:24:10,991 --> 00:24:14,911 And then put that on television again and again for 30 years. 464 00:24:16,913 --> 00:24:19,541 It was just a sign how desperate they were 465 00:24:19,624 --> 00:24:21,418 that they were bringing in 466 00:24:21,501 --> 00:24:24,087 anybody who was a little bit different. 467 00:24:28,592 --> 00:24:30,611 DICK: Some serious criticism is being leveled against 468 00:24:30,635 --> 00:24:32,387 the Austin Police Department tonight, 469 00:24:32,429 --> 00:24:34,389 and it comes from the families of the victims 470 00:24:34,473 --> 00:24:35,724 of the yogurt shop murders. 471 00:24:35,807 --> 00:24:37,567 They want to be able to say they've exhausted 472 00:24:37,601 --> 00:24:39,895 all their leads and they've done all they can with this. 473 00:24:39,936 --> 00:24:41,897 I think they're going to sweep us under the rug. 474 00:24:42,772 --> 00:24:44,900 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 475 00:24:47,152 --> 00:24:49,613 HUCKABAY: As time went by, 476 00:24:49,696 --> 00:24:52,741 you know, our relationship with the families 477 00:24:52,824 --> 00:24:55,535 sort of got to the point to where... 478 00:24:57,370 --> 00:24:58,497 Oh... 479 00:24:59,414 --> 00:25:01,208 I had to sort of move away. 480 00:25:02,667 --> 00:25:04,753 BOB AYERS: The thing that really pissed me off 481 00:25:04,836 --> 00:25:06,296 was they wouldn't ask for any help. 482 00:25:07,255 --> 00:25:09,049 They wanted to solve it themselves. 483 00:25:10,175 --> 00:25:11,885 They wouldn't really be honest with me. 484 00:25:13,261 --> 00:25:15,931 HUCKABAY: He started asking questions. 485 00:25:15,972 --> 00:25:18,099 Question, question, question. 486 00:25:18,141 --> 00:25:20,560 He wanted to know this, he wanted to know that. 487 00:25:20,602 --> 00:25:22,562 Well, hell, I ain't gonna tell him. 488 00:25:22,604 --> 00:25:24,332 They said, "We can't give you that information 489 00:25:24,356 --> 00:25:25,774 because if it gets out... " 490 00:25:25,857 --> 00:25:28,193 Well, if it gets out, where's it gonna be coming from? 491 00:25:28,276 --> 00:25:31,112 You think I'm gonna do something to jeopardize this case? 492 00:25:32,572 --> 00:25:33,782 They're nuts. 493 00:25:33,823 --> 00:25:36,284 You want me to trust you with this 494 00:25:36,952 --> 00:25:38,828 and you don't trust me? 495 00:25:38,912 --> 00:25:41,790 He'd asked me, he said, "What'd they do to my daughter?" 496 00:25:43,875 --> 00:25:46,044 I said, "Well, she was shot in the head." 497 00:25:46,962 --> 00:25:48,255 "Was she naked?" 498 00:25:50,006 --> 00:25:54,094 I said, "Bob, where are we going with all this?" 499 00:25:54,135 --> 00:25:56,596 "Well, I just want to know, did they rape her?" 500 00:25:57,847 --> 00:25:58,848 "Bob... 501 00:25:59,766 --> 00:26:01,434 stop right now. 502 00:26:01,476 --> 00:26:04,312 I don't want to talk anymore to you about this." 503 00:26:04,354 --> 00:26:07,524 I said, "This is bad for you, bad for me. 504 00:26:08,316 --> 00:26:10,485 You don't want to know everything, 505 00:26:10,569 --> 00:26:11,945 I promise you." 506 00:26:11,987 --> 00:26:14,155 And, you know, I'm not going to tell him all that crap. 507 00:26:14,239 --> 00:26:16,283 He don't need to know that anyway. 508 00:26:16,324 --> 00:26:18,285 I wish I didn't know it. (CHUCKLES) 509 00:26:18,326 --> 00:26:21,496 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪ 510 00:26:21,580 --> 00:26:22,848 Then, you know, it gets to the point 511 00:26:22,872 --> 00:26:24,225 where they come and tell you something. 512 00:26:24,249 --> 00:26:26,001 Well, am I really going to believe this, 513 00:26:26,042 --> 00:26:28,878 or are they just saying this to throw me off track? 514 00:26:30,005 --> 00:26:33,383 You know, I got to have some stability here. 515 00:26:34,259 --> 00:26:39,806 (BATS SCREECHING) 516 00:26:41,308 --> 00:26:43,893 BOB: The police department is supposed to be on our side. 517 00:26:45,103 --> 00:26:47,522 You have to trust them. What else do you have? 518 00:26:49,816 --> 00:26:51,359 There's been nothing like it before. 519 00:26:51,401 --> 00:26:53,737 There's been nothing like it since. 520 00:26:53,820 --> 00:26:56,281 And they just flat did not know what to do. 521 00:27:01,661 --> 00:27:04,873 - (SCHOOLBELL RINGING) - (OVERLAPPING CHATTER) 522 00:27:04,956 --> 00:27:07,083 LANIER PRINCIPAL: (OVER PA) There has been a break 523 00:27:07,167 --> 00:27:10,754 in the yogurt shop investigation. 524 00:27:10,837 --> 00:27:13,840 A confession has been received 525 00:27:13,882 --> 00:27:16,593 according to the news reports that we've heard. 526 00:27:16,676 --> 00:27:19,346 It is the break we have all been waiting for. 527 00:27:19,387 --> 00:27:21,890 Three hundred, 21 days ago, 528 00:27:21,931 --> 00:27:25,393 four teenage girls were murdered at a North Austin yogurt shop. 529 00:27:25,435 --> 00:27:28,396 Tonight, for the first time, they've named three men 530 00:27:28,438 --> 00:27:30,398 they want to question in the murders. 531 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,627 REPORTER 1: They are charged in an abduction and rape case 532 00:27:32,651 --> 00:27:34,736 not related to the yogurt shop murders. 533 00:27:34,819 --> 00:27:35,945 But during questioning, 534 00:27:36,029 --> 00:27:38,698 Saavedra reportedly confesses to the yogurt murders. 535 00:27:38,740 --> 00:27:40,909 REPORTER 2: Saavedra, also known as "The Terminator", 536 00:27:40,992 --> 00:27:43,036 implicated two other people in the murders. 537 00:27:43,078 --> 00:27:44,871 One by the name of Alberto Cortez 538 00:27:44,913 --> 00:27:46,956 has a striking resemblance to the man 539 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,250 who was seen sitting outside of the yogurt shop 540 00:27:49,334 --> 00:27:51,503 in December when the murders happened. 541 00:27:52,295 --> 00:27:54,714 It's a day we look forward to, 542 00:27:54,756 --> 00:27:56,257 but a day we dread at the same time. 543 00:27:57,384 --> 00:28:00,512 BOB: The end may be near, but it'll never be over. 544 00:28:00,595 --> 00:28:02,097 Maybe we'll get a little consolation 545 00:28:02,180 --> 00:28:03,223 if these are the guys. 546 00:28:03,264 --> 00:28:05,350 BARBARA AYRES-WILSON: I hope it's over. 547 00:28:05,433 --> 00:28:08,436 I hope this is it, and I hope they can prove everything 548 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:09,840 that this man has confessed to us. 549 00:28:09,896 --> 00:28:12,190 They can prove it without, beyond a shadow of a doubt 550 00:28:12,273 --> 00:28:14,776 so that it is them. 551 00:28:14,818 --> 00:28:15,944 There's no mistake, 552 00:28:16,027 --> 00:28:18,238 and that they have to be punished for this. 553 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:21,950 'Cause I don't wanna get the wrong person. 554 00:28:21,991 --> 00:28:23,827 I just want to make sure it's the right one. 555 00:28:23,910 --> 00:28:25,620 DICK: "When we got to the ice cream shop, 556 00:28:25,662 --> 00:28:27,956 I came across four girls who were there. 557 00:28:27,997 --> 00:28:31,251 The first one was the only one I could tie with the ropes. 558 00:28:31,292 --> 00:28:35,088 And then I took off her clothes and used them to tie the others, 559 00:28:35,130 --> 00:28:37,090 all the while continuing to beat them 560 00:28:37,132 --> 00:28:39,759 so they would be quiet until they were unconscious." 561 00:28:41,428 --> 00:28:44,139 If they are charged, they will be tried in Mexico 562 00:28:44,180 --> 00:28:46,433 because of the extradition process. 563 00:28:46,474 --> 00:28:47,475 Does it bother you 564 00:28:47,559 --> 00:28:49,436 that they won't even come here to face charges 565 00:28:49,477 --> 00:28:51,938 and that there is no death penalty in Mexico? 566 00:28:51,980 --> 00:28:53,314 It bothers me. 567 00:28:53,398 --> 00:28:54,774 - FAITH DANIELS: Does it? - Mm-hmm. 568 00:28:54,816 --> 00:28:56,693 BARBARA: It doesn't bother me. 569 00:28:56,776 --> 00:28:59,821 Marie, why do you say it bothers you still? 570 00:28:59,904 --> 00:29:01,030 MARIA: I want to see them. 571 00:29:01,114 --> 00:29:04,784 I want them to see, um, my hate for them. 572 00:29:05,618 --> 00:29:07,287 I'm, I'm, I'm... 573 00:29:08,329 --> 00:29:10,665 (SCOFFS) I hate them. 574 00:29:10,707 --> 00:29:13,877 JONES: It was kind of a confusing interrogation. 575 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,963 The Mexican authorities were leading it. 576 00:29:17,005 --> 00:29:19,174 They finally got around to giving Huck a copy 577 00:29:19,257 --> 00:29:21,092 of their written confession. 578 00:29:22,260 --> 00:29:25,346 That was sort of fun. I got to go to Mexico. 579 00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:30,018 JONES: And there were some glaring deficiencies in it. 580 00:29:30,059 --> 00:29:32,812 One, they had the caliber of the gun wrong. 581 00:29:32,854 --> 00:29:36,691 Uh, number two, is they said they poured white gas 582 00:29:36,733 --> 00:29:39,444 all over the place, which is kerosene. 583 00:29:41,488 --> 00:29:43,364 We knew that didn't happen. 584 00:29:45,492 --> 00:29:47,202 It was a very nice confession. 585 00:29:47,285 --> 00:29:50,371 I mean, a Hollywood screenwriter would be proud of that. 586 00:29:50,455 --> 00:29:52,373 The only problem is it wasn't worth the paper 587 00:29:52,457 --> 00:29:53,792 it was written on. 588 00:29:54,834 --> 00:29:56,211 You know? 589 00:29:56,294 --> 00:29:59,380 But, you know, when people saw excerpts of it, 590 00:29:59,422 --> 00:30:01,299 they go, "Yes, they confessed." 591 00:30:02,717 --> 00:30:05,053 A lot of people believe that people wouldn't confess 592 00:30:05,094 --> 00:30:07,555 to stuff that they didn't do. 593 00:30:07,597 --> 00:30:12,227 Mm, au contraire, they do. For whatever reason. 594 00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:16,105 ♪ (SENTIMENTAL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 595 00:30:17,357 --> 00:30:18,942 (SIGHS) 596 00:30:23,404 --> 00:30:25,657 REPORTER: Today, Porfirio Carlos Saavedra 597 00:30:25,740 --> 00:30:27,742 fought back tears saying he was forced 598 00:30:27,826 --> 00:30:30,578 to sign a statement saying he killed four girls 599 00:30:30,620 --> 00:30:33,790 at the I Can't Believe It's Yogurt! shop last December. 600 00:30:33,873 --> 00:30:37,335 Saavedra told me federal police put a bag over his head, 601 00:30:37,418 --> 00:30:39,963 a rag in his mouth, handcuffed his hands, 602 00:30:40,046 --> 00:30:42,257 punched him, and threatened to hurt his family 603 00:30:42,340 --> 00:30:45,677 if he didn't sign a statement that was read in court today. 604 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,554 - (PIG OINKS) - Be careful. 605 00:30:47,595 --> 00:30:50,098 ANNOUNCER: Heavyweight Hog, third place, Sonora Thomas. 606 00:30:50,139 --> 00:30:51,766 ERIN: The truth of the matter is, 607 00:30:51,808 --> 00:30:54,561 many parents of children who are killed 608 00:30:54,602 --> 00:30:57,146 want other people to know just 609 00:30:57,230 --> 00:30:59,691 how awful it is and what they're going through. 610 00:30:59,774 --> 00:31:00,984 You don't like these? 611 00:31:01,067 --> 00:31:03,278 We'd like you to have them, really. We would. 612 00:31:03,319 --> 00:31:04,588 BARBARA: When I see their friends, 613 00:31:04,612 --> 00:31:05,613 it kind of shocks me 614 00:31:05,697 --> 00:31:07,699 because they've grown up and gone on. 615 00:31:07,782 --> 00:31:10,702 But these little girls are still my little girls. 616 00:31:11,828 --> 00:31:14,622 ERIN: Initially, when these parents lost their kids, 617 00:31:14,706 --> 00:31:16,165 everybody wanted to talk to them. 618 00:31:16,249 --> 00:31:17,458 They were in the news. 619 00:31:17,542 --> 00:31:19,919 But over time, it's no longer in the news. 620 00:31:19,961 --> 00:31:22,714 And their friends are saying, "You've got to move on." 621 00:31:22,797 --> 00:31:24,173 They can't move on. 622 00:31:24,257 --> 00:31:26,718 They can't... Who could move on? You've lost your child. 623 00:31:26,801 --> 00:31:29,554 Or in Barbara's case, you've lost two children. 624 00:31:29,637 --> 00:31:32,098 And the story needs to have the focus. 625 00:31:32,140 --> 00:31:34,809 Otherwise, it will go unsolved. 626 00:31:34,893 --> 00:31:37,770 We're going months, and it turns into years, 627 00:31:37,812 --> 00:31:41,482 and then it comes to the point where they tell us, 628 00:31:41,524 --> 00:31:43,860 you know, "We just don't have a whole lot to go on." 629 00:31:43,943 --> 00:31:45,153 ERIN: When you're covering it, 630 00:31:45,236 --> 00:31:47,614 you're also kind of facing your fears, 631 00:31:47,655 --> 00:31:50,158 like, "If it could happen to these people, 632 00:31:50,241 --> 00:31:51,826 it could happen to me." 633 00:31:51,868 --> 00:31:54,787 It wasn't just the fact that there were four young kids 634 00:31:54,829 --> 00:31:56,331 who were killed, 635 00:31:56,372 --> 00:31:57,999 it was how they were killed. 636 00:31:59,292 --> 00:32:03,212 You see a very dark side of humanity. 637 00:32:04,631 --> 00:32:07,175 I guess I think it's part of my job. 638 00:32:07,216 --> 00:32:09,344 And you're going to feel it, 639 00:32:09,385 --> 00:32:14,223 and, um, and thank God you feel their pain. 640 00:32:18,978 --> 00:32:21,356 I can kind of understand people. (STUTTERS) 641 00:32:21,439 --> 00:32:23,858 If you're not in this position, 642 00:32:23,900 --> 00:32:26,819 you just don't really know the right thing to say 643 00:32:26,861 --> 00:32:28,821 because I probably wouldn't have. 644 00:32:28,863 --> 00:32:32,367 But for me, some of the things that really anger me is, 645 00:32:32,408 --> 00:32:36,329 "I'm so lucky. You're so lucky you have another child." 646 00:32:36,371 --> 00:32:39,749 Well, which one of any one of you would choose 647 00:32:40,792 --> 00:32:43,461 which child you'd be willing to let go of? 648 00:32:44,712 --> 00:32:47,215 SONORA: We're fascinated by this unsolved crime, 649 00:32:47,298 --> 00:32:50,551 but if you interview somebody who survived through it, 650 00:32:50,635 --> 00:32:53,471 I think the fascination goes away pretty quickly, 651 00:32:53,554 --> 00:32:55,014 'cause it's really not fascinating, 652 00:32:55,056 --> 00:32:56,808 it's really sad. 653 00:32:56,891 --> 00:32:59,852 I think, like, that's the most important 654 00:32:59,894 --> 00:33:02,730 story to tell, is to tell people 655 00:33:02,814 --> 00:33:07,610 that these events, like the yogurt shop murders, 656 00:33:08,736 --> 00:33:12,824 has a negative impact on so many people's lives 657 00:33:12,907 --> 00:33:14,659 for decades, and decades, and decades. 658 00:33:14,742 --> 00:33:17,412 Like, this isn't something that you just overcome 659 00:33:17,495 --> 00:33:19,539 or recover from. 660 00:33:19,580 --> 00:33:21,082 That's the story that's more important 661 00:33:21,165 --> 00:33:22,458 than who done it. 662 00:33:23,543 --> 00:33:25,878 What's it like for those families to go home 663 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,423 and go to bed that night, 664 00:33:28,464 --> 00:33:30,967 and the next night, and the next night, and the next night 665 00:33:31,050 --> 00:33:33,553 and years to come when their child isn't alive? 666 00:33:34,262 --> 00:33:35,447 And we don't hear those stories 667 00:33:35,471 --> 00:33:37,557 because those people are so traumatized. 668 00:33:39,851 --> 00:33:42,395 "48 Hours called me for an interview 669 00:33:42,437 --> 00:33:45,606 leading up to the 30th anniversary. 670 00:33:45,648 --> 00:33:49,444 The producer had said, 'Erin Moriarty has fond memories 671 00:33:49,485 --> 00:33:51,612 of your mom.' 672 00:33:51,696 --> 00:33:54,490 I'm a sucker for anybody who was nice to my mom. 673 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,417 During the interview, Erin Moriarty asked, 674 00:34:04,459 --> 00:34:06,627 'Were your friends' parents more protective of you 675 00:34:06,669 --> 00:34:08,087 after the murders?' 676 00:34:08,129 --> 00:34:11,466 I responded, 'I didn't have any friends. 677 00:34:11,549 --> 00:34:13,259 No one talked to me anymore.' 678 00:34:15,303 --> 00:34:18,473 'How about your parents? Were they more protective?' 679 00:34:18,556 --> 00:34:21,976 I replied, 'I've been talking with other siblings 680 00:34:22,018 --> 00:34:25,646 who have lost siblings, and they all say the same thing.' 681 00:34:25,688 --> 00:34:28,815 'When you lose a sibling, you lose your parents too.' 682 00:34:30,318 --> 00:34:32,652 I lost my parents that day. 683 00:34:32,695 --> 00:34:34,989 My mom went to her room and I stopped going 684 00:34:35,072 --> 00:34:36,364 to my dad's house." 685 00:34:37,533 --> 00:34:40,495 My family never talked about my sister after she died. 686 00:34:40,536 --> 00:34:42,121 - Never? - No. 687 00:34:43,331 --> 00:34:44,331 And... 688 00:34:46,626 --> 00:34:49,295 I worry about losing memories. 689 00:34:49,337 --> 00:34:54,467 "The childhood house I remember was quiet, lonely, unpopulated. 690 00:34:55,467 --> 00:34:57,470 I remember coming home from school 691 00:34:57,512 --> 00:34:59,680 to find the mail was still in the mailbox, 692 00:34:59,722 --> 00:35:04,018 my mom was still in bed, and my sister was still dead." 693 00:35:04,060 --> 00:35:07,522 There is a kind of torture that continues 694 00:35:07,605 --> 00:35:11,692 by the fact that it's unsolved and it's ongoing. 695 00:35:11,776 --> 00:35:13,861 "It was helpful to hear Erin speak 696 00:35:13,903 --> 00:35:16,405 about other crime victims' families. 697 00:35:17,865 --> 00:35:20,785 This is when I saw that this strange genre 698 00:35:20,868 --> 00:35:23,204 of crime shows doesn't just provide fodder 699 00:35:23,287 --> 00:35:24,997 for the curious. 700 00:35:25,039 --> 00:35:28,835 It also provides an outlet for victims to tell a story 701 00:35:28,876 --> 00:35:30,586 that no one wants to hear." 702 00:35:33,673 --> 00:35:37,218 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 703 00:35:37,260 --> 00:35:39,720 SONORA: "When you walk into the detective's office 704 00:35:39,762 --> 00:35:41,889 at the Austin Police Department, 705 00:35:41,973 --> 00:35:44,433 there are four, 8x10 photographs 706 00:35:44,517 --> 00:35:46,561 of my sister and the other girls 707 00:35:46,602 --> 00:35:48,479 hanging right in front of the door. 708 00:35:49,772 --> 00:35:53,442 Below them is a 3D model of the yogurt shop. 709 00:35:55,319 --> 00:35:58,364 Detectives will not allow themselves to forget. 710 00:35:59,323 --> 00:36:01,284 These are the first things they see 711 00:36:01,367 --> 00:36:03,244 when they walk into their office. 712 00:36:07,290 --> 00:36:09,584 It made me sad to note that it's still hanging 713 00:36:09,667 --> 00:36:11,836 over their heads as much as mine. 714 00:36:13,921 --> 00:36:17,008 Yet knowing this allowed me to feel a kinship 715 00:36:17,091 --> 00:36:18,801 with these strangers. 716 00:36:19,635 --> 00:36:20,720 If I met them, 717 00:36:20,761 --> 00:36:23,848 I would want to hug them and also apologize." 718 00:36:25,766 --> 00:36:29,687 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪ 719 00:36:31,856 --> 00:36:33,900 JONES: You have a person out there who wasn't there, 720 00:36:33,941 --> 00:36:38,279 who knows he's standing there every day looking at a murderer, 721 00:36:38,362 --> 00:36:40,239 who up to this point is getting away with it. 722 00:36:40,281 --> 00:36:41,699 Uh, it's been a tough case. 723 00:36:41,782 --> 00:36:43,284 It's been a tough role for most of us. 724 00:36:43,367 --> 00:36:45,119 But, you know, I like to tell people 725 00:36:45,161 --> 00:36:47,079 that we're peddling as fast as we can 726 00:36:47,121 --> 00:36:48,581 to try to get this thing solved. 727 00:36:48,623 --> 00:36:52,877 And it's all we live and breathe and think about 24 hours a day. 728 00:36:54,462 --> 00:36:56,214 You know, we wanted to do right... 729 00:36:58,174 --> 00:37:00,301 and it seems like a lot of the times 730 00:37:00,384 --> 00:37:04,096 we were just struggling to keep the train on the tracks. 731 00:37:04,138 --> 00:37:05,514 We know all there is to know, 732 00:37:05,598 --> 00:37:08,309 you know, about the... you know, about the crime itself. 733 00:37:08,392 --> 00:37:11,938 And we've got everything ready except who to charge with it. 734 00:37:11,979 --> 00:37:15,107 When the families suggested to Huck and I, 735 00:37:15,149 --> 00:37:18,069 "You know, you guys really... I think we should... 736 00:37:18,152 --> 00:37:19,588 I think y'all should get with a counselor. 737 00:37:19,612 --> 00:37:21,197 I think you need to talk to somebody." 738 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,784 And, of course I'm going, "Well, how weak is my shit?" 739 00:37:24,825 --> 00:37:27,161 Where the... the families are saying, 740 00:37:27,203 --> 00:37:28,597 "You guys need to go talk to somebody." 741 00:37:28,621 --> 00:37:30,373 So, we both did. 742 00:37:30,456 --> 00:37:32,833 That's when I got diagnosed with PTSD. 743 00:37:32,917 --> 00:37:35,169 And I didn't know what that was. 744 00:37:35,253 --> 00:37:37,463 I thought that was something that, 745 00:37:37,505 --> 00:37:41,342 you know, you had to be in a war for, you know. 746 00:37:41,425 --> 00:37:45,012 "As a result of a critical memo Mr. Jones received 747 00:37:45,054 --> 00:37:46,639 from a superior officer this week, 748 00:37:46,681 --> 00:37:49,976 he has not been able to function in a normal manner. 749 00:37:50,017 --> 00:37:52,144 This is not unusual in the case 750 00:37:52,186 --> 00:37:54,105 of post-traumatic stress disorder." 751 00:37:54,188 --> 00:37:56,274 JONES: Hi, this is... This is Andrea. 752 00:37:57,900 --> 00:38:00,069 JONES: That's my wife, Yolanda, over there. 753 00:38:01,529 --> 00:38:02,613 I'm too busy to be tired. 754 00:38:04,115 --> 00:38:05,199 And, uh... 755 00:38:05,283 --> 00:38:08,619 I think you get to a point where your mind just shuts down. 756 00:38:08,703 --> 00:38:09,829 That's it. 757 00:38:12,206 --> 00:38:15,876 JONES: The symptoms for PTSD listed in the DSM-III are, 758 00:38:17,086 --> 00:38:19,672 "Recurrent distressing dreams of the event." 759 00:38:21,048 --> 00:38:22,883 Yeah. 760 00:38:22,925 --> 00:38:26,846 "Intense psychological distress at exposure to events 761 00:38:26,887 --> 00:38:29,432 that symbolize a traumatic event, 762 00:38:29,515 --> 00:38:32,351 such as anniversaries." Check. 763 00:38:34,145 --> 00:38:35,372 REPORTER: The chief investigator 764 00:38:35,396 --> 00:38:37,898 working Austin's infamous yogurt shop murder case 765 00:38:37,940 --> 00:38:39,233 has been reassigned. 766 00:38:39,275 --> 00:38:41,902 Senior Sergeant John Jones has been on the case 767 00:38:41,986 --> 00:38:44,447 of the murders of four girls for two and a half years. 768 00:38:47,033 --> 00:38:49,744 "Restricted range of affect, 769 00:38:49,827 --> 00:38:53,664 such as loving feelings or any deep, real feelings." 770 00:38:56,375 --> 00:38:59,420 Zero relationships since divorce. 771 00:39:01,422 --> 00:39:02,423 (SMACKS LIPS) 772 00:39:02,465 --> 00:39:05,593 "Difficulty falling or staying asleep." 773 00:39:06,594 --> 00:39:07,595 Check. 774 00:39:12,850 --> 00:39:14,352 "Irritability." 775 00:39:18,230 --> 00:39:19,607 Small check. 776 00:39:19,648 --> 00:39:22,818 "Exaggerated startle response..." 777 00:39:25,029 --> 00:39:26,822 ♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪ 778 00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:30,701 Yeah, now I know why I haven't read that in a while. 779 00:39:38,376 --> 00:39:39,418 (PAGE RUSTLING) 780 00:39:57,728 --> 00:40:00,606 ♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 781 00:40:01,857 --> 00:40:04,985 (DOOR CREAKS SHUT) 782 00:40:05,069 --> 00:40:07,822 Let me get these keys and we'll go to the vault 783 00:40:07,905 --> 00:40:10,116 and I'll show you some memorabilia 784 00:40:10,157 --> 00:40:11,826 that we do still have. 785 00:40:11,909 --> 00:40:13,619 - (KEYS JANGLE) - (DOOR UNLOCKS) 786 00:40:13,661 --> 00:40:17,540 This is our old archive safe that keeps locked up 787 00:40:17,623 --> 00:40:20,918 with all sorts of lots of rich history and stuff. 788 00:40:21,001 --> 00:40:22,628 And here it is. 789 00:40:25,256 --> 00:40:27,967 This is the yearbook that that class 790 00:40:28,008 --> 00:40:31,679 had dedicated to her that year. 791 00:40:31,720 --> 00:40:35,724 Um, this was, this was her memory right here. 792 00:40:38,769 --> 00:40:40,020 Pretty picture. 793 00:40:40,104 --> 00:40:42,940 Yeah, we all were doing our hair like that, so. 794 00:40:44,316 --> 00:40:46,318 It's interesting because her time capsule 795 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,404 is starting to come up, 796 00:40:48,487 --> 00:40:51,740 probably because it wasn't placed in the ground correctly. 797 00:40:51,824 --> 00:40:56,203 But through time and just Earth's changes, 798 00:40:56,287 --> 00:40:59,206 it's starting to come up. So, it's very concerning to me. 799 00:40:59,248 --> 00:41:02,501 I don't want it to get in the wrong hands and stuff. 800 00:41:02,543 --> 00:41:04,712 So, we have a marker here on this side of the tree, 801 00:41:04,795 --> 00:41:07,339 and I think they had some plants. I'm not sure. 802 00:41:08,382 --> 00:41:10,593 But on this side of the tree over here, 803 00:41:10,676 --> 00:41:12,887 is actually another marker for her. 804 00:41:14,180 --> 00:41:16,307 And it says, 805 00:41:16,390 --> 00:41:18,851 "Time capsule, preserving memories 806 00:41:18,893 --> 00:41:20,227 of Amy Ayers, 807 00:41:20,311 --> 00:41:22,813 a life that should have been spared. 808 00:41:23,397 --> 00:41:25,774 February 21st, 1992." 809 00:41:25,858 --> 00:41:27,485 So, this was a little bit later on. 810 00:41:29,278 --> 00:41:31,322 I would only imagine that it could be things 811 00:41:31,405 --> 00:41:34,450 from her locker, maybe some newspaper clippings. 812 00:41:35,868 --> 00:41:38,245 So, this is what we have of her. 813 00:41:41,415 --> 00:41:44,015 STAFF MEMBER 1: Good afternoon and welcome to Burnet Middle School. 814 00:41:45,336 --> 00:41:48,255 We're here today for a special memorial dedication 815 00:41:48,297 --> 00:41:50,925 in honor of Amy Ayers 816 00:41:50,966 --> 00:41:54,887 on this, what would have been her 14th birthday. 817 00:41:56,430 --> 00:41:58,349 STAFF MEMBER 2: In and around this courtyard 818 00:41:58,432 --> 00:42:02,102 is where Amy and her friends used to gather every day. 819 00:42:02,186 --> 00:42:04,647 They would laugh and talk in carefree times, 820 00:42:04,730 --> 00:42:08,651 and then they gathered in sorrow. 821 00:42:08,734 --> 00:42:12,780 This tree, which will bloom white blossoms in the spring, 822 00:42:12,821 --> 00:42:16,116 will be a lasting symbol of Amy's love of life. 823 00:42:17,785 --> 00:42:19,995 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 824 00:42:26,627 --> 00:42:28,212 SHAWN AYERS: I like answers. 825 00:42:28,879 --> 00:42:30,381 And right now I don't have much. 826 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:33,300 I got a lot of questions. 827 00:42:34,718 --> 00:42:36,637 ANGIE AYERS: Back him up. 828 00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:38,823 There's not a day that goes by that she's not in our mind. 829 00:42:38,847 --> 00:42:40,891 And if we do cutting horse stuff, 830 00:42:40,975 --> 00:42:42,744 you better believe that the first thing on our mind 831 00:42:42,768 --> 00:42:45,229 is Amy and the last thing out of that arena is Amy. 832 00:42:46,438 --> 00:42:47,690 Let me try again. 833 00:42:49,441 --> 00:42:50,484 Oh, yeah. 834 00:42:50,526 --> 00:42:54,113 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 835 00:42:54,154 --> 00:42:57,449 SHAWN: I'll never know. That shit can drive you nuts. 836 00:42:57,992 --> 00:42:59,952 (COW MOOS) 837 00:42:59,994 --> 00:43:01,996 SHAWN: Why did this happen? 838 00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:03,622 There's never an answer good enough. 839 00:43:05,708 --> 00:43:06,834 Bring him back. 840 00:43:17,469 --> 00:43:18,804 ANNOUNCER: Time. Thank you, Shawn. 841 00:43:18,846 --> 00:43:20,681 That was Cats Royal Bandit 842 00:43:20,723 --> 00:43:23,475 and Mr. Music Man himself, Shawn Ayers, 843 00:43:23,517 --> 00:43:25,728 from Stephenville, Texas. 844 00:43:25,811 --> 00:43:29,189 When you lose a cow, there's nothing more irritating. 845 00:43:29,273 --> 00:43:30,858 Because that means the cow won 846 00:43:30,899 --> 00:43:33,319 and that is not what you want, is the cow to win. 847 00:43:36,530 --> 00:43:39,908 BOB: Through the years. I've wondered that a lot. 848 00:43:39,992 --> 00:43:42,578 What would she be like if she was grown up... 849 00:43:44,204 --> 00:43:46,415 and what would she be like if she had kids? 850 00:43:47,791 --> 00:43:49,084 It's Angie. 851 00:43:49,918 --> 00:43:51,358 That's what Amy would have been like. 852 00:43:52,546 --> 00:43:55,049 She's just a spitting image of her. 853 00:43:55,090 --> 00:43:56,717 She's right there in front of me. 854 00:43:57,593 --> 00:43:59,637 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 855 00:44:01,639 --> 00:44:04,099 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 856 00:44:05,517 --> 00:44:07,936 ANGIE: It's family-owned and operated, 857 00:44:08,479 --> 00:44:10,147 independent still. 858 00:44:11,523 --> 00:44:15,152 And we have a sporting goods side for guns. 859 00:44:17,404 --> 00:44:20,074 We're all a family and we consider this a family, 860 00:44:20,157 --> 00:44:22,910 and we need to know our patients and know each other, 861 00:44:22,951 --> 00:44:25,204 know each other's lives. 862 00:44:25,245 --> 00:44:27,915 But when I came in, they'd already known that... 863 00:44:29,249 --> 00:44:32,753 I have excess baggage, I guess, if you wanna call it that, 864 00:44:32,836 --> 00:44:34,380 that I was gonna have to deal with. 865 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:38,967 ANGIE: I was sad for Shawn and his family. 866 00:44:39,635 --> 00:44:42,262 They are victims of this crime, 867 00:44:42,346 --> 00:44:44,973 and they're having to beg for answers from 868 00:44:45,057 --> 00:44:47,101 the Austin Police Department. 869 00:44:47,184 --> 00:44:49,520 That's when I started getting irritated. 870 00:44:49,603 --> 00:44:52,773 And I started like, "Why aren't they telling y'all anything?" 871 00:44:52,815 --> 00:44:55,359 And the answer was then, "They don't have to. 872 00:44:56,902 --> 00:45:00,531 This is the way that they do it. This is the way it has been." 873 00:45:01,824 --> 00:45:05,285 But that's when I shifted over to, "Uh-uh, 874 00:45:05,327 --> 00:45:07,955 no, there's gotta be someone out there 875 00:45:08,038 --> 00:45:10,499 that can answer our questions and help us." 876 00:45:12,292 --> 00:45:13,645 SHAWN: Every so often you get calls 877 00:45:13,669 --> 00:45:15,462 from somebody about the case. 878 00:45:15,504 --> 00:45:18,298 I got a phone call from a private investigator. 879 00:45:18,382 --> 00:45:20,801 ANGIE: She said, "Look, I don't want to be intrusive, 880 00:45:20,843 --> 00:45:22,445 but my sister-in-law told me about your case. 881 00:45:22,469 --> 00:45:24,596 I helped solve my best friend's murder 882 00:45:24,638 --> 00:45:27,391 in Dallas. I really think that I could help y'all." 883 00:45:28,142 --> 00:45:29,143 (RAIN PATTERING) 884 00:45:29,226 --> 00:45:31,478 ANGIE: It's very difficult to open up to somebody 885 00:45:31,562 --> 00:45:34,356 and let them in because we're very private. 886 00:45:35,315 --> 00:45:36,543 SHAWN: And it's not the first time 887 00:45:36,567 --> 00:45:38,336 we've ever been contacted by a private investigator, 888 00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,113 but gut reaction was, "I think she can help." 889 00:45:41,155 --> 00:45:43,115 (THUNDER RUMBLING) 890 00:45:43,157 --> 00:45:48,078 (BIRDS CHIRPING) 891 00:45:48,787 --> 00:45:50,164 (WIND CHIMES TINKLE) 892 00:45:50,205 --> 00:45:51,582 SHEILA WYSOCKI: All right. 893 00:45:51,665 --> 00:45:54,042 So, you'll notice the chimes throughout the house. 894 00:45:54,126 --> 00:45:56,670 So, they're all over in my backyard. 895 00:45:56,712 --> 00:45:59,548 And each chime represents a client. 896 00:46:00,507 --> 00:46:02,342 And so when they blow, 897 00:46:03,594 --> 00:46:06,722 I can listen. And certain ones, you know how I am, 898 00:46:06,805 --> 00:46:08,974 certain ones tell me certain things, 899 00:46:09,016 --> 00:46:11,602 and, you know, when I'm working on a particular case, 900 00:46:11,685 --> 00:46:12,770 I can hear 'em. 901 00:46:13,979 --> 00:46:16,523 So, this is gonna represent Amy. 902 00:46:16,607 --> 00:46:18,727 You're gonna put it right here, even if it's not the... 903 00:46:18,776 --> 00:46:20,903 Or right there. It's up to you guys. 904 00:46:20,986 --> 00:46:23,322 - Where do you want? - Can it fit? 905 00:46:25,073 --> 00:46:26,533 All right, you can put it there, too. 906 00:46:26,575 --> 00:46:27,868 It's going to hit. Uh-oh. 907 00:46:27,910 --> 00:46:29,912 Well, okay, so just so you know, 908 00:46:29,995 --> 00:46:33,207 yours is a little bit tangled, kind of like your case. 909 00:46:33,290 --> 00:46:36,168 - So... I'm sorry. - Pretty. 910 00:46:36,210 --> 00:46:38,879 So, when we're out here working 911 00:46:38,921 --> 00:46:43,675 and when I'm walking the dogs in the back, I can hear Amy. 912 00:46:43,717 --> 00:46:45,052 - I love that. - SHEILA: Yeah? 913 00:46:45,135 --> 00:46:46,654 - That's pretty cool. - SHEILA: Isn't that fun? 914 00:46:46,678 --> 00:46:48,013 I love doing it. 915 00:46:48,055 --> 00:46:49,335 - ANGIE: Thank you. - SHEILA: Yeah. 916 00:46:50,766 --> 00:46:53,477 All right, guys, we're going to start. 917 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,397 So, what we do is we help families, right? 918 00:46:57,439 --> 00:47:03,237 And this is our family in the yogurt shop case. 919 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,907 Angie has worked for seven years on... 920 00:47:08,242 --> 00:47:11,411 putting... (CHUCKLES) putting pressure on the police 921 00:47:11,453 --> 00:47:14,790 and the DA to get information to help the girls. 922 00:47:14,873 --> 00:47:18,418 And so we've gone through what she's done 923 00:47:18,460 --> 00:47:22,506 and she's gotten to a standstill and that's where we come in. 924 00:47:22,589 --> 00:47:25,259 And my group feels very lucky... 925 00:47:25,342 --> 00:47:27,928 - Oh, I hope I don't cry. - (LAUGHS) 926 00:47:27,970 --> 00:47:29,680 I'm a crier, um, 927 00:47:29,763 --> 00:47:31,932 to have you guys come and do this. 928 00:47:31,974 --> 00:47:36,019 So, watch your step, (CHUCKLES) and then take a seat. 929 00:47:37,229 --> 00:47:41,108 - (VOLUNTEERS APPLAUD) - (SHEILA CLEARS THROAT) 930 00:47:41,149 --> 00:47:42,627 I'm going to start with you, Catherine. 931 00:47:42,651 --> 00:47:44,152 Do you have anything you wanna ask? 932 00:47:44,236 --> 00:47:46,613 Um, I'm interested to know what your thoughts are 933 00:47:46,655 --> 00:47:49,116 on all of the confessions that were obtained, 934 00:47:49,199 --> 00:47:52,452 what your take is on false confessions in general. 935 00:47:52,494 --> 00:47:54,746 VOLUNTEER 1: The individual next door in the party store, 936 00:47:54,788 --> 00:47:58,125 do you have an opinion on if he would have heard noises? 937 00:47:58,208 --> 00:47:59,602 VOLUNTEER 2: Two people were spotted 938 00:47:59,626 --> 00:48:01,587 sitting in that booth at the end of the night. 939 00:48:01,628 --> 00:48:04,089 VOLUNTEER 3: Do you know if anybody has made an attempt 940 00:48:04,131 --> 00:48:07,301 to see what fits in the physical space? 941 00:48:07,342 --> 00:48:09,428 And I've done cases, Sheila and I have done cases 942 00:48:09,469 --> 00:48:10,637 that involve the occult. 943 00:48:10,721 --> 00:48:12,323 VOLUNTEER 4: He told someone that that night 944 00:48:12,347 --> 00:48:13,867 he saw the devil come out of that shop. 945 00:48:13,891 --> 00:48:16,310 I thought it was some type of gang initiation. 946 00:48:16,351 --> 00:48:17,728 The embezzlement, money laundering, 947 00:48:17,811 --> 00:48:20,397 and the insurance is kind of under one umbrella right now. 948 00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,984 There's the creek people, the PIB, People in Black. 949 00:48:24,026 --> 00:48:25,503 VOLUNTEER 4: In the back by the telephone, 950 00:48:25,527 --> 00:48:26,987 there's a cross. 951 00:48:27,070 --> 00:48:28,381 Do you know or have heard something 952 00:48:28,405 --> 00:48:30,782 as far as that he went and told other people something... 953 00:48:30,824 --> 00:48:33,285 SHEILA: I hate to do this, girls. On your knees. 954 00:48:33,327 --> 00:48:36,830 You're naked, you're young, and you don't know what to do. 955 00:48:36,914 --> 00:48:38,832 So, you go, one, two, three. 956 00:48:38,874 --> 00:48:41,835 Well, if I'm running, you grab this arm, I could spin. 957 00:48:41,877 --> 00:48:43,295 - Amy's 13 years old. - SHEILA: Right. 958 00:48:43,337 --> 00:48:44,522 - These are guys. - SHEILA: Right. 959 00:48:44,546 --> 00:48:45,631 Would a guy really need 960 00:48:45,672 --> 00:48:47,150 to smack her with a cash register drawer? 961 00:48:47,174 --> 00:48:49,110 - SHEILA: That's vengeance. - Or would they just punch her? 962 00:48:49,134 --> 00:48:51,178 Does that maybe point to a woman? 963 00:48:51,219 --> 00:48:53,513 SHEILA: You're 100 percent right. 964 00:48:53,597 --> 00:48:56,183 ANGIE: It's very frustrating not having answers. 965 00:48:57,142 --> 00:48:59,019 It has consumed me at times. 966 00:48:59,102 --> 00:49:00,538 I'm just trying to do the right thing. 967 00:49:00,562 --> 00:49:02,481 I'm trying to find the answers for everybody. 968 00:49:02,522 --> 00:49:06,902 So, I don't see random disarray with those bodies. 969 00:49:06,985 --> 00:49:09,696 VOLUNTEER 5: Is there some type of symbolism as to the position 970 00:49:09,780 --> 00:49:12,866 - of the bodies? - Oh, great point. 971 00:49:12,908 --> 00:49:14,385 ANGIE: It's aggravating. It's frustrating. 972 00:49:14,409 --> 00:49:15,661 But who else can I ask 973 00:49:15,702 --> 00:49:17,871 to give me the answers that I'm looking for? 974 00:49:17,955 --> 00:49:21,667 Head, legs, head, legs. 975 00:49:23,126 --> 00:49:25,587 Head, legs, head, legs. 976 00:49:27,547 --> 00:49:30,217 SHEILA: So that's our work, is to disprove it, 977 00:49:30,258 --> 00:49:31,819 - if we can. - VOLUNTEER 4: It could be nothing. 978 00:49:31,843 --> 00:49:34,388 - SHEILA: It could be. - VOLUNTEER 4: It really could be nothing. 979 00:49:34,471 --> 00:49:36,014 ANGIE: You would think after 30 years 980 00:49:36,056 --> 00:49:39,059 that we would have been a lot further along. 981 00:49:39,142 --> 00:49:42,479 There's been so many people in the police station 982 00:49:42,562 --> 00:49:46,483 and in the DA's office that have come and gone. 983 00:49:46,566 --> 00:49:49,403 And every time they do that, you have to start over. 984 00:49:51,029 --> 00:49:52,698 REPORTER 1: It has been a frustrating, 985 00:49:52,739 --> 00:49:55,242 painful five years for family and friends 986 00:49:55,283 --> 00:49:57,077 of Eliza Thomas, Amy Ayers, 987 00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:58,745 and Jennifer and Sarah Harbison. 988 00:49:58,829 --> 00:50:00,932 REPORTER 2: Investigators have followed lead after lead, 989 00:50:00,956 --> 00:50:02,207 but five years later, 990 00:50:02,249 --> 00:50:04,501 they are no closer to solving the case. 991 00:50:04,584 --> 00:50:06,312 REPORTER 3: News 36 has learned that a number 992 00:50:06,336 --> 00:50:08,880 of Austin homicide investigators have been assigned 993 00:50:08,922 --> 00:50:10,924 to look at this case once again. 994 00:50:10,966 --> 00:50:13,051 The Austin Police Department announced today 995 00:50:13,093 --> 00:50:17,305 it will reopen Austin's infamous yogurt shop murder case. 996 00:50:17,389 --> 00:50:19,200 REPORTER 3: There's a small group of detectives 997 00:50:19,224 --> 00:50:21,601 in Austin, tasked with finding any clue 998 00:50:21,643 --> 00:50:24,271 that will crack this case wide open. 999 00:50:24,312 --> 00:50:26,773 REPORTER 4: Paul Johnson's been working to pour over new leads. 1000 00:50:26,857 --> 00:50:29,526 ♪ (BROODING MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1001 00:50:32,070 --> 00:50:34,740 PAUL JOHNSON: At that time, people that had been assigned 1002 00:50:34,781 --> 00:50:36,533 to the yogurt shop case previously, 1003 00:50:36,616 --> 00:50:38,994 had left the detail. 1004 00:50:39,077 --> 00:50:41,955 You know, I was reluctant to get in this. 1005 00:50:41,997 --> 00:50:43,957 Well, everybody else in the homicide detail 1006 00:50:44,041 --> 00:50:45,709 was also reluctant. 1007 00:50:47,377 --> 00:50:50,881 The rumors was that there were problems 1008 00:50:50,964 --> 00:50:52,215 with the yogurt shop case. 1009 00:50:54,051 --> 00:50:56,344 The investigation had already gone before, 1010 00:50:56,428 --> 00:50:59,765 they had come up with suspects that had been announced publicly 1011 00:50:59,806 --> 00:51:02,142 and acted like, "This is them." 1012 00:51:02,184 --> 00:51:04,478 And it turns out, "Well, no, it's not them." 1013 00:51:04,561 --> 00:51:06,897 REPORTER: The next day, he recants the confession. 1014 00:51:06,980 --> 00:51:10,776 Things like that just muddies up a case. 1015 00:51:12,778 --> 00:51:14,988 JONES: When the new group took over, 1016 00:51:15,072 --> 00:51:17,324 Huck and I were pretty much shut out. 1017 00:51:17,407 --> 00:51:20,619 They seemed to be saying that we screwed it up. 1018 00:51:20,660 --> 00:51:22,204 ♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1019 00:51:22,287 --> 00:51:24,748 JONES: I always thought that we'd be a part of it, 1020 00:51:24,831 --> 00:51:27,834 that we'd be of counsel, of emeritus, 1021 00:51:27,918 --> 00:51:29,920 that they would still come back to us and say, 1022 00:51:30,003 --> 00:51:31,963 "Hey, what do you think?" 1023 00:51:32,005 --> 00:51:33,191 HUCKABAY: I don't believe he and I 1024 00:51:33,215 --> 00:51:35,175 should have been taken off the case. 1025 00:51:35,258 --> 00:51:37,511 They sort of eliminated me totally. 1026 00:51:37,594 --> 00:51:41,932 They don't want me involved anywhere, because I... 1027 00:51:42,015 --> 00:51:45,727 I throw a candle into the, into the fire, you know? 1028 00:51:53,568 --> 00:51:55,171 JONES: The only thing I regret about all of that 1029 00:51:55,195 --> 00:51:58,698 is how we lost contact with the families. 1030 00:51:58,782 --> 00:52:02,035 JOHNSON: Some people have actually accused John Jones 1031 00:52:02,119 --> 00:52:04,204 of being too close to the families. 1032 00:52:04,246 --> 00:52:09,543 And he actually used that to get more money, 1033 00:52:09,626 --> 00:52:12,546 to get more people, to get time off. 1034 00:52:14,589 --> 00:52:16,550 JONES: In order to put themselves up, 1035 00:52:16,633 --> 00:52:19,261 the new investigators put us down. 1036 00:52:20,679 --> 00:52:25,308 I mean, it sounds kind of rude or crude maybe, but... 1037 00:52:26,309 --> 00:52:28,061 I did not have a close relationship 1038 00:52:28,145 --> 00:52:31,189 with the families because I didn't want to get... 1039 00:52:31,231 --> 00:52:35,694 too emotionally tied into their concerns. 1040 00:52:39,531 --> 00:52:42,075 ♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1041 00:52:44,661 --> 00:52:46,454 (BIRDS CHIRPING) 1042 00:52:55,255 --> 00:52:57,299 So, here's the door, the back door. 1043 00:52:58,258 --> 00:52:59,759 I don't know if it has a lock on it 1044 00:52:59,801 --> 00:53:02,762 from the outside now, um... 1045 00:53:02,804 --> 00:53:06,099 We suspect that the suspects had gone in front 1046 00:53:06,141 --> 00:53:09,728 during business hours and unlocked the back door 1047 00:53:09,769 --> 00:53:12,480 to come in after hours... 1048 00:53:13,648 --> 00:53:15,400 and go in the back door. 1049 00:53:15,442 --> 00:53:17,569 This dumpster was a little closer over here, 1050 00:53:17,611 --> 00:53:20,739 but the backs of the buildings are basically the same. 1051 00:53:20,780 --> 00:53:23,742 This creek looks a little more grown up 1052 00:53:23,783 --> 00:53:26,119 than it used to be, but... 1053 00:53:26,161 --> 00:53:30,540 the trees are 30 years older and so I guess that's expected. 1054 00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,338 So, I started going over the case. 1055 00:53:36,922 --> 00:53:39,507 It was very large. 1056 00:53:39,591 --> 00:53:43,803 I came up with about 2000 separate reports. 1057 00:53:43,887 --> 00:53:45,680 So, there's 2000 separate tips. 1058 00:53:46,598 --> 00:53:49,517 And it was just me and Ron Lara. 1059 00:53:50,727 --> 00:53:52,312 REPORTER: The APD Cold Case Unit, 1060 00:53:52,354 --> 00:53:54,606 born out of the yogurt shop task force. 1061 00:53:54,648 --> 00:53:57,150 Ron Lara was part of the original task force, 1062 00:53:57,192 --> 00:53:58,652 created to solve the case. 1063 00:53:58,735 --> 00:53:59,945 The case continues on. 1064 00:53:59,986 --> 00:54:02,989 There's still, uh, you know, tips coming in. 1065 00:54:03,031 --> 00:54:05,533 JOHNSON: We would just work on one at a time. 1066 00:54:05,617 --> 00:54:07,994 And if we worked it up to saying, 1067 00:54:08,036 --> 00:54:11,456 "This is not our suspects," we would go to the next tip, 1068 00:54:11,498 --> 00:54:13,959 and the next one, and the next one. 1069 00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,670 And then we got to the Maurice Pierce tip. 1070 00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:23,009 Remember Maurice Pierce was arrested roughly ten days 1071 00:54:23,093 --> 00:54:25,804 after the yogurt shop murders in Northcross Mall, 1072 00:54:25,845 --> 00:54:28,682 which is, like, two blocks away, with a gun... 1073 00:54:28,765 --> 00:54:31,309 - (CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING) - 22-caliber. 1074 00:54:31,351 --> 00:54:33,812 And the Maurice tip involved four people. 1075 00:54:35,438 --> 00:54:37,774 Maurice Pierce himself, Robert Springsteen, 1076 00:54:37,857 --> 00:54:42,028 Michael Scott, and... Forrest Wellborn. 1077 00:54:42,070 --> 00:54:45,365 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1078 00:54:45,448 --> 00:54:47,158 JOHNSON: When I started this case, 1079 00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:50,829 I actually thought the best I could ever do 1080 00:54:51,913 --> 00:54:54,791 is probably figure out in my own mind 1081 00:54:54,874 --> 00:54:56,209 who I thought did it, 1082 00:54:56,293 --> 00:54:58,878 but never be able to get evidence to go to trial. 1083 00:55:01,881 --> 00:55:04,384 And then it's like almost overnight, 1084 00:55:05,593 --> 00:55:09,556 my whole expectation of how this might end up, changed. 1085 00:55:14,060 --> 00:55:16,855 ♪ (TENSE MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪ 1086 00:55:17,522 --> 00:55:19,816 RON LARA: 1087 00:55:22,819 --> 00:55:24,237 LARA: 1088 00:55:27,741 --> 00:55:30,535 LARA: 1089 00:55:36,166 --> 00:55:38,251 LARA: 1090 00:55:59,314 --> 00:56:00,648 LARA: 1091 00:56:44,401 --> 00:56:45,652 ♪ (MUSIC STOPS) ♪ 1092 00:56:49,155 --> 00:56:52,617 ♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1093 00:58:28,296 --> 00:58:30,423 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪